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A terrible ruling (Wills)?

A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby Russell » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:13 am

If you can't talk about the problem, how are you ever going to even start talking about the solution?
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby shootist » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:28 am

Seems about reasonable to me. Parents can be vindictive towards their children and on the facts given this would seem to be such a case.
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby Russell » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:30 am

shootist wrote:Seems about reasonable to me. Parents can be vindictive towards their children and on the facts given this would seem to be such a case.


Why can't someone be vindictive, it's their money? Also, a family history is often a very long and complex affair that could never be unraveled in a court who can know who is right or wrong. Why should being right or wrong some into this, its the defcied (sp) wishes.
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby atticus » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:08 pm

The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 permits a spouse/cohabitee of the deceased, or a child of the deceased, or anyone who was wholly or partly maintained by the deceased and for whom inadequate provision is made by Will or the intestacy rules to apply to the court to make reasonable financial provision out of the estate.

This has therefore been a brake on the idea that you can leave your estate exactly as you wish. I understand that lawyers drafting wills advise on this in those cases where the client wants to leave everything to the donkey sanctuary.

The Court evaluates all the claims on the estate and tries to achieve an outcome that is fair to all.

Here is the judgment: http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cg ... od=boolean. The case before the Court of Appeal was not about whether provision should be made out of the mother's estate for the daughter but about the amount of such provision. The charities still got something, quite a bit actually, but not everything.

In many other countries the law is more prescriptive and you have no option to disinherit.

the 1975 Act: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/63/contents.
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby Russell » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:08 pm

My understanding of this re the law society guy on the radio is. That the mother didn't express clearly enough the rationale behind her decision and she had no strong (or possibly any link) to the charities mentioned.

This is a request to disclose 'thoughts' and 'feelings' the data protection act would not cover this, criminal law doesn't compel you to do this. Why should the management of your 'own' money compel you to do it?
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby Russell » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:10 pm

Thanks for the judgement I will have a read shortly.
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby Russell » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:27 pm

On scanning the document what is is saying is that to leave a will isn't enough. You need to also leave a watertight (because you're not there to defend it) case that justifies your will. That's terrible! These people were estranged for years, it very clear they didn't get along. And the evidence on the naming of the child, how can that be proven or dis-proven on only hearing one side of the story?

The main winners here are the Solicitors and Barristers who will be getting additional work on drafting will and disputing them in courts.
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:30 pm

You seem to have formed a firm view of the effects of this case in the seventeen minutes you had available to study it.

I think you are reading too much into this case. That the law regulates what you can and can't do with your will is unsurprising. None of us is entirely free to do whatever we want to do with our own money, and that's as true after we're dead as it is while we're alive. Clearly society also has an interest in ensuring that people are properly provided for and do not ultimately become dependent upon public funds.

In the long term judgments like this provide greater clarity to the law: now people have a clearer idea of what they need to do in order to have their desire not to provide for their children adhered to.

As atticus says, many other legal systems provide much less freedom. Ours provides a great deal of leeway.
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby dls » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:56 pm

I am not really sure that the case has anything like the significance suggested.

The first decision in her favour goes back to 2007.

As has been said the law goes back to 1975. Even I have litigated it a couple of times. For several years it was a very common kind of claim since the costs systems tended to forgive a failing claimant.
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Re: A terrible ruling (Wills)?

Postby miner » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:22 pm

I reckon it's a good decision, based on the entirety of the circumstances.

.....since the costs systems tended to forgive a failing claimant.


Sorry, but I don't quite understand what you mean, dls.
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