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Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby theycantdothat » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:27 pm

peckerwood wrote:I think personal liability is limited to being negligent or fraudulent.


If a personal representative has notice of a claim before the expiry of the statutory notice to creditors, or after expiry but before completing the administration, if he distributes the estate without regard to the claim and the claim is proved he will (together with the beneficiaries) be liable to meet the claim.
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby peckerwood » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:01 pm

Yes, But this enquiry is about the validity of the claim.
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby atticus » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:35 am

I recommend you to take advice.
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby dls » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:46 pm

echoed - the logic of the OP stance is wrong, and clearly risks personal liability for no obvious reason.
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby theycantdothat » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:36 pm

peckerwood wrote:Yes, But this enquiry is about the validity of the claim.


Fine, but I was responding to your observation: "I think personal liability is limited to being negligent or fraudulent."

On the face of it the claim looks invalid - or to be more accurate no action can be brought on it. However, limitation is not entirely straightforward. If you came within some exception or there was some devil in the detail which had you, one would have expected it to have been pointed out. Since that is not the case you are probably in the clear. However, you cannot be sure without advice from an expert.

I add that I think it quite wrong, verging on the oppressive, for arms of government to make claims and not support them when asked. If they are saying limitation does not apply they should say why and not suggest you seek legal advice.
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby atticus » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:44 pm

the OP has been dealing with employees for whom questions of limitation are above their pay grade. The OP should put his requests in writing, when they may be dealt with (eventually) by a suitably knowledgeable person, and not by telephone.
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby theycantdothat » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:48 pm

atticus wrote:The OP should put his requests in writing.


Agreed that is what is needed.

People dealing with queries "above their pay grade" can be a problem.

Worse is people dealing with queries at their pay grade who make it up as they go along and get it wrong and refuse to budge despite being presented with closely reasoned irrefutable arguments as to why they are wrong.
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby peckerwood » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:43 am

Atticus. Can you recommend anyone, an expert who can give advice? I have already committed money from the estate paid in advance of advice, but it has not been fruitful. One told me to stand down as executor and commit executorship to them, and they intended to concede to the demand at the expense of the beneficiaries. I'm asking for a refund because no advice or answers to my questions have been given.

When I ask the CSA for written explanation, I get telephone calls asking when I will make over sums of money.

I have asked my MP to intervene. A written request has been made. I know the CSA haven't been truthful because they claimed to have telephoned the deceased on a date I know he was out of the country. I offered a conference but the CSA refuse to speak with "intermediaries".

The CSA has not issued legal proceedings.
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby theycantdothat » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:06 am

You should not really be paying in advance for advice. You cannot simply stand down as an executor nor can the office be assigned to someone else. A court order is required. I think that indicates the likely quality of the advice you can expect from the source you contacted.

The snag with finding an expert is that there are not really experts on limitation as such, at least they are not often found outside barristers chambers or very large firms of solicitors. It is not a specialism like personal injury or landlord and tenant law. Limitation applies in many contexts and it tends to be the case that lawyers know the basics they need to know for the areas they practise in. However, limitation is a creature of statute and everything you need to know is in the Limitation Act 1980 (as amended), though interpreting what some provisions mean or how they apply is not necessarily straightforward. The devil can be in the detail. Even so, the overall thrust of the Act is to set time limits for claims and those are set out clearly enough. The exceptions are there to prevent injustice, but are not a tail that wags the principle that a man is entitled to know when a claim can no longer be pursued against him.

On the face of it the CSA seem to be out of time. They need to explain why they think they are not and not keep repeating mantra-like "Pay! Pay! Pay!"
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Re: Deceased estate, CSA and the Limitation Act

Postby dls » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:00 pm

But is it arrears of CS? It looks like collecting under magistrates' liability order. What debt lies behind it may be legally irrelevant.
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