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Equal pay for doing the same job.

Employment and Discrimination Law

Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby shootist » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:02 pm

The latest battle cry of the modern egalitarians, it seems. With their battle cry in mind I gave thought to the pay scales of the police. The pay of a police constable on completion of two years service is given as £28,869. After a further 7 years service the pay is given as £38,382. I would maintain that, in terms of uniformed police duties, a two year service constable is doing the same job as a nine year service constable. Accordingly, IMO, they should be paid the same. They face the same personal risks, the same alleged dangers, the same stresses, the same amount of paperwork. An officer stabbed to death at two years service is just as dead as one approaching retirement. Statistically, it would seem most likely that this pay differential discriminates by age, in favour of the older officers.

I have heard counters to this argument to the effect that the increased pay scales reflect the growing experience of officers. I disagree with this for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the experience gained by an officer serving in a busy town or city is quite different from an officer serving in some donkey walloping village miles from anywhere, yet the pay scales would seem to be the same. There is also the issue that a percentage of older officers adopt the work style of a tortoise, drawing their head in and remaining still at the first sign of work, having also developed a terribly allergy to pen and paper. Officers who gain special skills, be it on road traffic units or CID could gain extra pay fairly. In my opinion, and in my 22 years experience, time served is no measure of value, in income terms at least. The only fair way seems that anyone expected to do the same job gets the same pay.

Any thoughts, anybody?
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby atticus » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:35 pm

The Equal Pay legislation goes back to the 1970s.

Do you disagree that a woman doing the same job as a man should be paid the same as the man? Your post seems to focus on other perceived differences or reasons for pay differentiation.
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby shootist » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:43 pm

atticus wrote:The Equal Pay legislation goes back to the 1970s.

Do you disagree that a woman doing the same job as a man should be paid the same as the man?


Absolutely not. The labourer is worthy of his hire. And should a person doing the same job as another person be paid the same, especially in, but not confined to, a public service role?

atticus wrote: Your post seems to focus on other perceived differences or reasons for pay differentiation.


There are other actions that can count as discriminatory in respect of equal pay, in this case, age. But, as I have said, should a person doing the same job as another person be paid the same. It's a simple enough question, I think. The difficulties of implementation would be considerable I don't doubt, but that aspect seems to matter little when it comes to discrimination issues.
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby atticus » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:06 pm

Are you saying that the pay differential between a copper who's been in the job 2 years and one who's been in the job 9 years is due to age discrimination?
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby shootist » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:53 pm

atticus wrote:Are you saying that the pay differential between a copper who's been in the job 2 years and one who's been in the job 9 years is due to age discrimination?


I was sort of hoping for a discussion here rather than a cross examination. I think the OP was not asking an exceptionally difficult or complex question. I am querying why to people doing exactly the same job get a significantly different wage and yet there's no outcry about it. At the same time, one BBC radio personality (?) has resigned in disgust because another radio personality (?) of a different sex gets paid significantly more money than she did.

While I admit to being no expert on discrimination law, I believe that there is something referred to as indirect discrimination, which is to say that, in this case, while there is no direct system that enforces higher wages for older police officers, the effect is that older police officers will get higher wages because of the way that pay scales are constructed. This should not be too difficult a concept in a world where dustmen have been decreed to be doing the same work as dinner ladies but get more money.

I look forward, more in hope than anticipation, to you posting an opinion relevant to the OP.
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby atticus » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:29 pm

The OP is confused. That makes it difficult to discuss.

Carrie Gracie resigned as BBC China editor over equality of pay between genders.

The fact that a 24 year old copper is paid less than a 31 year old who has been in the job 7 years longer is not age discrimination: if the 31 year old had been in the job 2 years, then from what you have said there would not be that differential. Many jobs have pay scales with pay points, progression being in part according to experience. The pay is not awarded by reference to age, it is because more experienced employees are often more capable. My own experience and observation is that in early years there is a steep learning curve, which rises more slowly after 5 to 8 years.
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby diy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:44 am

I fundamentally have issue with 2 people doing the same job having a right to earn the same money. We readily accept that a Audi A3 costs more than a fiesta, yet both do the same job. When it comes to humans we seem stuck on the idea that everyone should earn the same for the same job, even though one might be a lazy waster, while the other hard working and diligent. Surely its down to the individual to negotiate his or her pay and leverage against the fear of them leaving and the employer having to replace them.

For me your value isn't the job you do, but how you do it. Your employer's desire to keep you is based on this and therefore 2 people doing the same job don't have the same value.
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby dls » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:28 pm

Equal pay for doing the same job.


Formany jobs ys, but for many others, the 'job' includes additional elements making many comparisons facile.
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby shootist » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:10 pm

dls wrote:
Equal pay for doing the same job.


Formany jobs ys, but for many others, the 'job' includes additional elements making many comparisons facile.


Like comparing bin men with dinner ladies?
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Re: Equal pay for doing the same job.

Postby atticus » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:29 am

Large organisations with lots of employees have to try to carry out these evaluations of jobs for exactly this purpose. Local authorities being a prime example, or dare I say it companies like Carillion.

The schemes are long and complicated. Ultimately they attempt to evaluate jobs by objective criteria and give them a points score, precisely so that jobs of equivalent value are given equivalent pay, be it dinner lady or bin man.

The objectives are worthy, and frankly the cost to these employers of not doing so is horrendous.
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