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Management Closing Ranks.

Employment and Discrimination Law

Management Closing Ranks.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:43 pm

I have here a report about a manager who seems dreadfully bad at dealing with people. She has, it seems, caused a number of staff to quit and the current staff have been making complaints.
These complaints are not being properly addressed and the staff are becoming increasingly stressed.
By way of example, the manager in question was asked to apologise. That apology came as the kind of "sorry if" that members here have recently complained of, and it turns out that that apology was cleared as satisfactory by the other manager...

The organisation does have a proper formal grievance procedure, but it seems that this is seen as an extreme form of action.
I have suggested that a gripe is still a grievance and that they have a duty to deal with them.
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby shootist » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:05 am

Hairyloon wrote:I have here a report about a manager who seems dreadfully bad at dealing with people. She has, it seems, caused a number of staff to quit and the current staff have been making complaints.
These complaints are not being properly addressed and the staff are becoming increasingly stressed.
By way of example, the manager in question was asked to apologise. That apology came as the kind of "sorry if" that members here have recently complained of, and it turns out that that apology was cleared as satisfactory by the other manager...

The organisation does have a proper formal grievance procedure, but it seems that this is seen as an extreme form of action.
I have suggested that a gripe is still a grievance and that they have a duty to deal with them.


Then those who feel they have a grievance are making themselves victims by their own inaction. Much like the aspiring actresses, political assistants, and it seems just about anybody else who chose to suffer in silence the abuses, major and minor, inflicted upon them by their 'superiors' and thereby placing their career above their own self respect.
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby dls » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:28 am

and it turns out that that apology was cleared as satisfactory by the other manager...

Typically that might be the public version. You may not know what has actually been said.
Managers are ordinary people and many are over promoted.
All grivances are gripes (if you must), but not all gripes are grievances. A gripe has to reach a point of seriousness before it is worthy of being called a grievance.
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:07 am

dls wrote:
and it turns out that that apology was cleared as satisfactory by the other manager...

Typically that might be the public version. You may not know what has actually been said.

Such is the advantage of a written apology: I have read it.
Managers are ordinary people and many are over promoted.

Without doubt. I believe that part of the problem is that the one that gave the promotion does not want to admit their error.
All grivances are gripes (if you must), but not all gripes are grievances. A gripe has to reach a point of seriousness before it is worthy of being called a grievance.

I think the distinction is artificial and unhelpful. More importantly, I cannot see where it is drawn. Can I press you to expand on where and why?
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby atticus » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:38 am

Why did you call it a gripe and not a grievance?
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby atticus » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:30 am

From the ACAS code on discipline and grievances at work (p41):
Anybody working in an organisation may, at some time, have problems or concerns about their work, working conditions or relationships with colleagues that they wish to talk about with management. They want the grievance to be addressed, and if possible, resolved. It is also clearly in management’s interests to resolve problems before they can develop into major difficulties for all concerned.

Issues that may cause grievances include:

● terms and conditions of employment
● health and safety
● work relations
● bullying and harassment
● new working practices
● working environment
● organisational change
● discrimination.

Grievances may occur at all levels
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:32 am

atticus wrote:Why did you call it a gripe and not a grievance?

To draw an artificial distinction between a simple complaint about unfair treatment and the invocation of a formal process for which I am told that one should be fully "lawyered up" before even considering.

Shootist may have a point. If the complainant is losing sleep and becoming ill over the issue and yet does not think it bad enough to "raise a formal grievance", then perhaps it is because she likes complaining.
Or perhaps the grievance process in that organisation is sufficiently onerous to justify her position. In which case it is rather pointless.


Thanks. ACAS had somehow slipped entirely from my mind. Possibly because they proved to be utterly useless, but that was situation specific and a long time ago.
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby atticus » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:35 am

You are mis-told.

Should my wife have been "lawyered up" several years ago when the kids were small when she complained after being told she could never take holiday at half term because the other mum in the office always had those times? She managed quite well without.

You may inform your friend, and her employer, of the ACAS code.
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am

atticus wrote:You are mis-told.

Should my wife have been "lawyered up" several years ago when the kids were small when she complained after being told she could never take holiday at half term because the other mum in the office always had those times? She managed quite well without.


Does your wife work at the organisation which we are discussing?
Your point is quite correct in general, but maybe not so in this case.
Which is a grievance that I would raise, and indeed am half minded to do so anyway, despite it not being my business.

You may inform your friend, and her employer, of the ACAS code.

They are both aware of it, but a timely reminder should not go amiss.
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Re: Management Closing Ranks.

Postby YorkshireBloke » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:04 pm

Hi,

Good debate re Gripes...

Surely there must be a "trigger point" before management take action 'cos in every office, warehouse, shop-floor and workshop everyone has a "gripe. In my office tea-spoons go missing. We bitch (non-PC?), moan and "gripe".

Do management rush in to mediate? Dies the Trades Union call meetings? No. Because it isn't THAT serious.

How do we and management know it isn't that serious?

Yep. No one raised a Formal Grievance in the Workpace. In house procedures, ACAS procedures, just a formal letter written by hand.

Go figure.

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