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Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Employment and Discrimination Law

Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:41 pm

atticus wrote:Well, at least we have established that there is no evidence that any known democratic society affords the practice of paedophilia its respect.


Are you still on that one?
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... s-at-risk/
https://www.ageofconsent.net/highest-and-lowest

If there is such evidence, one considers whether there is contrary evidence of the state of opinion in the UK and in democratic societies more closely aligned to the UK and which might be loosely described as western democratic societies, eg EU countries, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

The test is of "a democratic society", it is not "Our society or one much like it". And you are blowing the dog whistle. It may have a different pitch to Shootists, but nonetheless...
I would examine whether the fact of "respect" in certain democracies (if this has been established) in itself makes the belief worthy of respect (the words used in Grainger) in our democratic society.

Now there, you may have a good argument: we have here some kind of democracy which is afforded far more respect than it is worthy of, I can see that the principle can apply to other things also.
I would also remember that the proposition that the particular belief merits protection can be challenged by reference to the other two limbs of para 24(v), or indeed paras 24(i) to 24(iv), and make submissions as appropriate on those grounds. It may be argued that failure on either of those grounds is sufficient to show that the belief is not worthy of respect etc.

Curious that you did not remember that point earlier in the thread... I now notice you had inserted it into the early post sometime later.

atticus wrote:
Smouldering Stoat wrote:Whether a belief is worthy of respect in a democratic society is not to be determined by looking at the beliefs of every democratic society to see whether one may be found where the belief is respected. We could equally enumerate the democratic societies where it is not respected...
I see the question had already been answered in part. I agree with Stoaty.


Really?! Then you are a fool. We have been over this point no end of times when discussing the non-existence of god. The burden of proof is to prove that it does exist, it is not to prove that it does not.
You described it earlier as inconceivable, yet there it is existing, not just once, but several times over.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:02 pm

I resent being called a fool by someone with as dishonest a debating style as you, hairy.

You asked how I would counter the argument you postulated. I showed how I might go about that, and frankly you should respect the post for that.

It does not help that in your attempt at rebuttal you make subtle changes to the meaning of what I have said, notwithstanding that you have quoted my actual words. You also divert points into irrelevant side tracks that are no part of the point that the judges have said needs to be considered (eg does our democracy get more respect than is worthy?).

none of your links demonstrate that any democratic society affords the practice in question any respect. Please understand those words before posting links to things that indicate something else.

Nor am I blowing a dog whistle. If you learn a new word or phrase, please learn and understand what it means. You are like a toddler running round the house saying "f**k".

It is curious that you did not remember having read the part earlier in this thread where I made the very point that you have alleged I did not remember to make. It stands out a mile that you say that when you cannot think of anything else to say against that very strong argument.

Frankly, I have no idea what is passing through your head in the last part.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:15 pm

atticus wrote:I resent being called a fool by someone with as dishonest a debating style as you, hairy.

The advantage of this kind of debate (ie a written one), at least when debated honestly, is that the record shows exactly who said what and when: if somebody misrepresents what you said, we can all refer back and see exactly what was said.
Of course, that advantage only holds if the debate is honest, and there is nobody fiddling with the record...

Nor am I blowing a dog whistle. If you learn a new word or phrase, please learn and understand what it means...


You effectively said that when we mean "democratic society", we mean the decent ones like ours, not those strange foreign ones (full of brown people).
Almost exactly analogous to Shootists comment that kicked all this off.

It is curious that you did not remember having read the part earlier in this thread where I made the very point that you have alleged I did not remember to make.


I don't remember it because it wasn't there when I answered it. And when I saw it this morning I don't think it had the note to say "edited to add"...
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:19 pm

Your memory fails you again. It was there before any subsequent post was written by anyone in this thread.

That is of course an irrelevance and a distraction (so what's new?). Even if the point had not previously been made, it is a good one, to which even you have no answer.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
atticus wrote:Nor am I blowing a dog whistle. If you learn a new word or phrase, please learn and understand what it means...


You effectively said that when we mean "democratic society", we mean the decent ones like ours, not those strange foreign ones (full of brown people).
Almost exactly analogous to Shootists comment that kicked all this off.

I did not say that, "effectively" or otherwise.

More dishonesty on your part.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:52 pm

atticus wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:You effectively said that when we mean "democratic society", we mean the decent ones like ours, not those strange foreign ones...

I did not say that, "effectively" or otherwise.

The trouble with words, and particularly the unwritten ones, is that we know what we mean when we write them and tend to assume that people will know what we meant when they read them
If there is such evidence, one considers whether there is contrary evidence of the state of opinion in the UK and in democratic societies more closely aligned to the UK and which might be loosely described as western democratic societies, eg EU countries, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Now I am sure that you didn't intentionally list the predominantly white, Christian nations, but...
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:59 pm

atticus wrote:Your memory fails you again. It was there before any subsequent post was written by anyone in this thread.

Ah, you see not my memory, but the database: you may note that I quoted your post when answering. Now for you, it might all be about "winning" and argument, but I am here to seek the right answers so why would I delete the right answer from a post in order to pretend that I hadn't seen it and carry on a pointless discussion?
Clearly I wouldn't, but maybe you'd like to edit my post so that it includes the whole of your post and not just the part that was there when I answered it?
That should show me up and score you bonus points... :roll:
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:04 pm

OK, so no answers to the substance of the point that you are burying beneath a pile of distraction and general ordure.

You are not doing this in some noble quest for The Right Answer. You are being deliberately and unpleasantly antagonistic.

Well done, hairy. You have excelled yourself.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:27 pm

atticus wrote:OK, so no answers to the substance of the point that you are burying beneath a pile of distraction and general ordure.

Sorry, which point was it that you want answering? I was going to wait until you'd finished ranting before returning to the substantive issue.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:57 pm

For God's sake man, just leave it.
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