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Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Employment and Discrimination Law

Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:07 pm

Hairy, being a victim of child sexual abuse is incompatible with the dignity of the child. If you are unable to distinguish this from consensual sex which you may find a bit undignified then you require urgent help.

Further, the child has the fundamental right to be protected by the state from inhuman or degrading treatment, and to be protected from child sexual exploitation.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:24 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Hairy, being a victim of child sexual abuse is incompatible with the dignity of the child.

Oh, I agree, but the guidance refers to "Human dignity", which appears to be a concept derived from the Catholic Church... the least said about them here, the better.

Further, the child has the fundamental right to be protected by the state from inhuman or degrading treatment, and to be protected from child sexual exploitation.

There you go, nailed it. I was beginning to worry.

CHARTER OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION wrote:Article 24

The rights of the child

1. Children shall have the right to such protection and care as is necessary for their well-being. They may express their views freely. Such views shall be taken into consideration on matters which concern them in accordance with their age and maturity.

2. In all actions relating to children, whether taken by public authorities or private institutions, the child's best interests must be a primary consideration.

3. Every child shall have the right to maintain on a regular basis a personal relationship and direct contact with both his or her parents, unless that is contrary to his or her interests.


What took you so long? ;)

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Whether a belief is worthy of respect in a democratic society is not to be determined by looking at the beliefs of every democratic society to see whether one may be found where the belief is respected. We could equally enumerate the democratic societies where it is not respected.

But that is just nonsense.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:54 pm

If you want to protect your friend from vigilantes, report the matter to the police.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:29 am

I wondered if anybody would ever notice the bit about vigilantes...
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:55 am

You have done a fantastic job of steering the thread away from your question.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:54 am

The original question was answered clearly and quickly: can we throw him out of the pub because we don't like his sexual preference? Yes we can.
But that answer provoked other questions... has been quite interesting overall.

The question remains though: how can a belief be judged as unworthy of respect by a democratic society when several known democratic societies afford it their respect?
It is an academic question, since the root of it has been dealt with another way, but it should be easier to answer in the abstract.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:10 am

What is your evidence for contending that "several known democratic societies afford [the practice of paedophilia] their respect"?

If you are going to answer, please do so with something that is not risible.

In any event, and by way of reminder, there are 3 limbs to the test. There is no point in tying yourself up in knots counting angels on the head of the "democratic society" pin when there is no prospect of clearing either, never mind both, of the second and third hurdles.
atticus wrote:see para 24 of Grainger v Nicholson.
(v) It must be worthy of respect in a democratic society, be not incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others ...
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:46 am

atticus wrote:What is your evidence for contending that "several known democratic societies afford [the practice of paedophilia] their respect"?

Tell me Atticus, what is your understanding of the term "an academic question"?

Hairyloon wrote:The question remains though: how can a belief be judged as unworthy of respect by a democratic society when several known democratic societies afford it their respect?


Your answer, that we have dealt with one specific example of that question through avoiding the need to answer it does not answer the question.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:58 am

Well, at least we have established that there is no evidence that any known democratic society affords the practice of paedophilia its respect.

The discussion now concerns the hypothetical scenario in which I am asked to contend that a belief does not meet the first of the three criteria in para 24(v) of Grainger when it is contended that several known democratic societies afford it their respect.

One starts by examining the evidence for that proposition. If there is such evidence, one considers whether there is contrary evidence of the state of opinion in the UK and in democratic societies more closely aligned to the UK and which might be loosely described as western democratic societies, eg EU countries, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. I would examine whether the fact of "respect" in certain democracies (if this has been established) in itself makes the belief worthy of respect (the words used in Grainger) in our democratic society.

I would also remember that the proposition that the particular belief merits protection can be challenged by reference to the other two limbs of para 24(v), or indeed paras 24(i) to 24(iv), and make submissions as appropriate on those grounds. It may be argued that failure on either of those grounds is sufficient to show that the belief is not worthy of respect etc.

Going back to my "with laughter" point, as an advocate I have often asked the judge if he would like me to address him or her on a point raised by the opposing advocate. If the judge tells me that will not be necessary, I know that the Judge agrees it is a bad point.
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Re: Paedophilia and the Equality Act.

Postby atticus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:54 am

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Whether a belief is worthy of respect in a democratic society is not to be determined by looking at the beliefs of every democratic society to see whether one may be found where the belief is respected. We could equally enumerate the democratic societies where it is not respected. What is the court supposed to do, examine the belief systems of every democracy in the world (having, presumably, heard expert testimony as to whether they are actually democracies)?

The question is whether or not the belief is worthy of respect in this country as a democracy.

"Well, it's ok in Upper Volta, m'lud" goes nowhere in addressing the worthiness of the belief, and might properly be met with derision.
I see the question had already been answered in part. I agree with Stoaty.
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