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When to disclose covert recordings?

Employment and Discrimination Law

Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby Scienke » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:28 am

shootist wrote:
Scienke wrote:The issue with setting out the issues relating to the lies on the recording is that they will immediately ask me to prove that my managers lied.


do you ask a barber if your hair needs cutting. State your case and prove it at the tribunal.


Scienke wrote:I would love nothing more than to get my managers in court, see them lie on oath and then be able to pull out my recordings proving they have lied. But from the little I know about civil law (perhaps criminal law too?) evidence you intend to use in court must be disclosed prior to court proceedings.


You are not going to use your tape at court necessarily, but if you lose it becomes insurance for an appeal. It becomes of value only when you can prove the lie. If the other side presents a written pre-hearing statement, signed by the managers in question, that you can definitively contradict with the recording then perhaps that would be the time to expose the lie. I don't know how much such statements are obliged to contain, it may be a summary in which case I suspect you would achieve little. In a criminal case you would need something like a statement signed by one or more of the managers which you can disprove to the extent that it could only be a lie.

Consider, expose what you call a lie beforehand. Could the other side present it as a miss-recollection of the facts and was therefore not a lie but a mistake? That is but one possible get out for them. You need to be in a position where you can prove that what management said could only be a lie before revealing the recording. Fail and your recording will prove only that you breached trust.


Fair points above about making sure they tell the lie before I decide to prove it so they can't claim to have made a mistake. But when you say:
You are not going to use your tape at court necessarily, but if you lose it becomes insurance for an appeal.
It would be an added bonus to be able to prove that my managers committed perjury but my fear would be that having withheld this evidence throughout the tribunal - only to then disclose it at an appeal stage - might end up making me look like I'm abusing the courts time. My thinking at the moment is that disclosing a covert recording to an employer may be a mistake but if you end up in court then you should lay it all out prior to the hearing and ask them to settle or to let the judge decide.
Last edited by Scienke on Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:33 am

I don't think the tape would give any grounds for appeal: you have to show that the court erred in law.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby atticus » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:03 am

disciplinary procedures usually provide for an appeal within the company.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby Scienke » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:14 am

But are you obliged to use their appeal procedure if you believe that it will simply be used as a time wasting tactic? If I'm sacked then I'd rather just put it before a court that will hopefully be impartial.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby atticus » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:19 am

Not following internal procedures is often a mistake.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby Scienke » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:26 am

It's a tricky one because when dealing with an employer that loves to unnecessary delay things - when you follow their internal procedures you give them that opportunity. Then you end up at the tribunal and face having your case thrown out because you're out of time. I suppose an attempt to follow their internal procedures should be made but if they don't pull their finger out then you shouldn't wait for them.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby atticus » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:27 am

Yep.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:30 am

Scienke wrote:It's a tricky one because when dealing with an employer that loves to unnecessary delay things...

As I said: you put it to them in writing that these delays are undermining the essential trust and confidence. Give them a deadline and say you will be forced to resign if it is not met.
Then you end up at the tribunal and face having your case thrown out because you're out of time...

Why do you say you will be out of time? Surely the time limit runs from the end of the process.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby Scienke » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:53 am

Hairyloon wrote:Why do you say you will be out of time? Surely the time limit runs from the end of the process.


You would think so but it doesn't stop them trying, even if you're successful in arguing that you're not out of time it just means that people like me who have no legal experience get bogged down in more legalese. I've visited the tribunal to take a look at how it all works. In theory it's supposed to be designed to allow employees to represent themselves but from what I saw, most employees representing themselves were totally out of their depth when it came to time limits and technical legalities.
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Re: When to disclose covert recordings?

Postby atticus » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:54 am

Time runs from the date of dismissal ("the effective date of termination").
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