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Being on call and working hours..

Employment and Discrimination Law

Re: Being on call and working hours..

Postby Limpopo574 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:16 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
Limpopo574 wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:Why can he not go out and take the vehicle?

The vehicles belong to a large corporate fleet and are self insured by the company excluding personal use.

Is it arguable that you are taking the vehicle to make it available for the employee who is on call: ie that it is company use?
How do they make the distinction: if you stop at a shop on the way back from a call does that make it personal use?


If you were at work and during work hours and you stopped for some personal matter that was of a trifling nature then that wouldnt be an issue.

If however outside work hours, i decided to use the vehicle to visit a friend or some other similar journey, that wouldnt be allowed.

Even if allowed to use it whilst on call to travel, there would still be an element of excessive control.

Example, you are pushing a trolly round Tesco having done some of your shopping, phone rings,,quick response is triggered. You cant finish your shopping.

Go to Gym or other similar function,,phone rings,, have to leave gym or other function very quickly.
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Re: Being on call and working hours..

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:37 pm

Limpopo574 wrote:If you were at work and during work hours and you stopped for some personal matter that was of a trifling nature then that wouldnt be an issue.

If however outside work hours, i decided to use the vehicle to visit a friend or some other similar journey, that wouldnt be allowed.

How are you defining "work hours" here? Do you mean the time you are on call?
But my point was that you might not be using the vehicle to visit your friend, but instead, you could be visiting your friend and taking the vehicle along in case you had a call.

However, as you put it, IMO there is no question about it: you are at work.
Even if allowed to use it whilst on call to travel, there would still be an element of excessive control.

Example, you are pushing a trolly round Tesco having done some of your shopping, phone rings,,quick response is triggered. You cant finish your shopping.

Go to Gym or other similar function,,phone rings,, have to leave gym or other function very quickly.


I would say that that question comes down to probability and predictability: if you can reasonably expect to finish your shopping and probably will, then you are not at work, but if you are only likely to finish if you are lucky and quick, then that is enough control to put you at work.
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Re: Being on call and working hours..

Postby Michael » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:49 am

We have people on call in my job.

The basic rule is if someone is on call and had to stay at a location determined by the employer that would be working hours. If whilst waiting for the phone to ring they are free to go out and do what they want those hours are not classed as working hours, after all it would be hard to argue your working if your down the local disco showing off your moves.

In my job as part of the agreement that provides them with the extra on call work , the work is classed as overtime and they gain a higher than normal overtime rate for being on call .All areas of law have grey areas and they stay like that until someone goes to court or EAT to address them.

Hairyloon wrote:
Limpopo574 wrote:He knows that if he happened to be out of the house when they called he would be unlikely to make the response time since he would have to go home, pick up vehicle etc.

Why can he not go out and take the vehicle?
Probably because he would then not be exempt from company car tax
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Re: Being on call and working hours..

Postby Limpopo574 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:50 pm

Thanks all and you are really confirming what i already suspected, i.e that in such circumstances i would be "working" and all the time on call whether active or not would be working time. Note that it is not a matter of seeking payment for as we know ,working time and payment are two separate matters which only cross when matters of national minimum wage arise.

Use of the company vehicle outside normal rostered hours is not allowed . Use of vehicle for personal use/carriage of unauthorised passengers is not allowed. This really does need to go to an EAT.
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Re: Being on call and working hours..

Postby atticus » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:08 pm

It will only go to the Employment Appeal Tribunal if the losing party in an Employment Tribunal cases wishes to appeal.
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Re: Being on call and working hours..

Postby atticus » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:09 pm

NB I have referred earlier in this thread to an EAT case on the question.
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