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Lost tribunal

Employment and Discrimination Law

Re: Lost tribunal

Postby thinkfirst » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:36 pm

After my last post I re-read the letter from the Judge and noticed he said he would consider a further request for a reconsideration if it was shown the employer had not complied with disclosure. After the tribunal decision an ex work colleague, who had an attack of the guilts because she caused the issue which got me dismissed, handed me some documents for my case but it was too late to use them. These were documents that supported my case about staff training which meant the employer's belief could not have been reasonable.

So I sent a further request for reconsideration on the basis the employer did not comply with disclosure and included the documents to show their belief could not have been reasonable. The Jude has again refused to reconsider by saying that had these documents been included at tribunal his decision would have been the same because, although the documents show that all staff were trained the same standard of health and safety, they do not specify which health & safety training was done and, as far as the Judge is concerned, it would be unnecessary for all staff to have had the training which the employer claimed only certain staff had. Staff training records would soon clarify that, and would support my case, but they were never disclosed either. I will never understand that when an issue is about training, no one was required to review or disclose training records!

The Judge has also said that the documents I submitted put the respondent in breach of the case management order for disclosure. If the respondent is now deemed as being in breach of the case management order, would that have any effect on the tribunal proceedings that took place?
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby dls » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:56 pm

Did you ask for staff training records?
Do the documents now produced suggest that further yet undisclosed documents still exist, and are the still missing documents of a type which might assist? Was this pointed out to the judge?
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby blig » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:02 pm

Hmm ... were you thinking of seeking permission to appeal on the grounds that the respondent was in breach of the case management order for disclosure which led the lower tribunal to misdirect itself?

And did it?
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby thinkfirst » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:22 pm

Did you ask for staff training records?
- No. For some reason my solicitor did not request them even after I suggested to him that we ask for them. I did put in my statement that staff training records would clarify the whole issue of training as they would show who was trained in what, and they would support my case.

Do the documents now produced suggest that further yet undisclosed documents still exist, and are the still missing documents of a type which might assist?
- The documents don't suggest any such thing that I can see, they are self contained and not linked to any others. The only documents I can think of that are missing and that would assist are the staff training records.

Was this pointed out to the judge?
- Not verbally at Tribunal, only in my statement as mentioned above. When I asked for a further reconsideration, I was in such a hurry to get it sent off that I forgot to mention training records had not been disclosed.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby thinkfirst » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:24 pm

blig wrote:Hmm ... were you thinking of seeking permission to appeal on the grounds that the respondent was in breach of the case management order for disclosure which led the lower tribunal to misdirect itself?

And did it?


I don't know what i'm thinking to be honest. Just trying to get my head around it again. It's too late to appeal the Tribunal decision and a reconsideration has been refused twice. Seems every time I meet the goalpost, they are moved.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby blig » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:14 pm

It may be possible to apply to the Employment Appeal Tribunal to extend the time to appeal; and if granted appeal

See

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-employment-ap ... l/overview
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/publicatio ... -guidance/

This doesn't mean this is a sensible thing to so. It would be expensive and only a course of action you should take after seeking advice.

Unless the amounts involved are very high it may well be better to accept life is unfair and walk away.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby thinkfirst » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:22 pm

When you have an employer who lies in court and a Judge who seems to back the employer at every turn, then the odds were always against me. I was going to call it a day after getting the Tribunal decision but then the option of a reconsideration turned up. Now that has been exhausted I feel this is as far as I am going to take it. Yes it's frustrating but I'll get over it.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby dls » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:00 am

Sad, but probably wise.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby Waingro » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:26 pm

Good luck thinkfirst.
Nothing I say should be construed as advice because I really haven't got a clue.....
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Quick update

Postby thinkfirst » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:20 am

Im now in another job and doing quite well.

Still gripes me a little that previous employer lied in court and that when lies are finally uncovered its too late to do anything about it because thats how the ET system works; you only have 42 days to put these things forward after an ET decision but, as in this case, the lies were not uncovered until much much later. Why do I bring this up now; because more lies have just been confirmed to me. The respondent stated to the ET judge that they personally trained the two staff i said were not trained (i used these to show a like with like comparison to the staff i left in charge) and that these two staff were duty managers; these two staff have since left the company and have contacted me to confirm they had never been trained, they were never duty managers, and also to say they were threatened with dismissal if they contacted me at the time.

It all just shows what depths employers will go to in order to win an ET, and IMO shows a flaw in the ET system if it wont take new very relevant evidence into account that only comes to light much later on.
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