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Lost tribunal

Employment and Discrimination Law

Re: Lost tribunal

Postby donarebun » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:41 am

So sorry to hear about this.

Wish you all the best in the future
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby dls » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:47 pm

Isn't it possible that this is a misreading. What is required is someone trained with the appropriate (Health and Safety?) skills. I cannot see that the name 'manager' means a lot.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby thinkfirst » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:13 pm

dls wrote:What is required is someone trained with the appropriate (Health and Safety?) skills.

That is the point the judge made; it was all about the health and safety training of the person left in charge. Which makes his judgement even more confusing to me because if it was all about the training, it came out during the tribunal that I didn't have the appropriate health and safety training, and I was regularly left in charge.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:04 am

thinkfirst wrote:
dls wrote:What is required is someone trained with the appropriate (Health and Safety?) skills.

That is the point the judge made; it was all about the health and safety training of the person left in charge. Which makes his judgement even more confusing to me because if it was all about the training, it came out during the tribunal that I didn't have the appropriate health and safety training, and I was regularly left in charge.

Again I suggest that you ask for the judgment in writing, though I think you may now be too late.
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--- UPDATE ---

Postby thinkfirst » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:43 am

I thought it was done with but my solicitor decided to ask for a reconsideration because I didn't have the appropriate health and safety training and was regularly left in charge. This meant my employer dismissed me for doing something which they regularly do. We have just received a response and the Judge refused to reconsider. The Judge now says the issue was not about the actual training which staff had done; the issue was about the employer's belief of the training which staff had done. The employer said they believed that I was trained and the staff they left in charge were trained, and believed the staff I left in charge were not trained.

The person who held the disciplinary hearing and dismissed me said they believed I was trained. They had training records which showed I wasn't trained but chose not to check them. As the issue was about training, was it reasonable of him not to check the training records?

The person who held the appeal hearing, and upheld the dismissal, admitted at Tribunal that he knew I had not done the training. This meant when he upheld the dismissal he could not have held a belief that I was trained. I knew who had done certain training and suggested at the appeal that he check the training records, but he did not. As he knew I had not done the training, was it reasonable of him to believe that I had done the training? As the issue was about training, and I suggested he check training records, was it reasonable of him not to check the training records?

I get why a belief would be reasonable in the absence of any solid facts, but I don't get why a belief would be reasonable when you are in possession solid facts such as training records. To me a 'belief' is a 'get out of jail free' card for employers because now they only have to say they had a 'belief' and a Tribunal will accept that.

The irony of this is; the Respondent would not take into account my belief of staff training when they dismissed me, but they are now relying on their belief of staff training to deem the dismissal fair!
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby atticus » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:58 pm

I find this odd.

In the context of unfair dismissal the test is -

- whether the employee had a genuine belief that the employee was guilty of the misconduct alleged, AND

- whether that belief was based on reasonable grounds.

(MOJ v Parry, UKEAT/2013/0068. Para 10)

Have your solicitors considered this in connection with a possible appeal?
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby thinkfirst » Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:50 pm

My solicitors are no longer interested in it because they were appointed by my union and anything they do from now on is not covered by the union which means they wont get paid.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby atticus » Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:39 pm

Have you seen the written reasons for the decision?

Has time for appealing expired?
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby thinkfirst » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:32 pm

Ive got the written reasons for the Tribunal decision but It's too late to appeal that now. I know you can appeal a reconsideration decision but it didn't get that far as the Judge has refused it. I don't know if a refusal to reconsider can be appealed.
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Re: Lost tribunal

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:39 pm

thinkfirst wrote:Ive got the written reasons for the Tribunal decision but It's too late to appeal that now. I know you can appeal a reconsideration decision but it didn't get that far as the Judge has refused it. I don't know if a refusal to reconsider can be appealed.

No, if they refuse to reconsider then the original decision stands so you can only appeal against that decision.
NB: the time limit runs from the date you were sent the written reasons (for the decision).
Note also that the reasons for refusing to reconsider are not the reasons for the decision, even if the reasons are the same reasons, but if you asked for reasons at the same time as you asked they reconsider, then you are entitled to the reasons for the decision as well as the reasons for refusing to reconsider, so if they have refused to reconsider and only given the reasons for refusing to reconsider, then you may be able to salvage the time limit by insisting on the reasons for the decision...

Sorry if that is hard to follow. :?
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