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Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:51 pm

I have found guidance on how to establish a parish council: https://www.gov.uk/government/get-invol ... sh-council, and I have found the Local Government and Rating Act 1997 which allows a district council, or a unitary county council to conduct a review of parishes in its area, including the ability to recommend the establishment of a parish, but I can find nothing to cover how the public can establish a parish without that recommendation.

If the people can petition their local council to allow them to have a parish council, then it logically follows that the people can themselves establish a parish for which they want a council.
Given that, it would seem sensible that in order to establish a parish, then one could follow the process for establishing a parish council, but stop short of the petitioning.
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Re: Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:14 pm

Hairyloon wrote:If the people can petition their local council to allow them to have a parish council, then it logically follows that the people can themselves establish a parish for which they want a council.
Given that, it would seem sensible that in order to establish a parish, then one could follow the process for establishing a parish council, but stop short of the petitioning.


That doesn't follow. The ability to petition the holder of a power does not imply the ability to take that power upon yourself if your petition is rejected.
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Re: Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Postby tph » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:52 pm

Hairyloon wrote:.... but I can find nothing to cover how the public can establish a parish without that recommendation.


Perhaps there is no other way of establishing a parish. It sounds like political brown-nosing is the only way to do it!
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Re: Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:46 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:If the people can petition their local council to allow them to have a parish council, then it logically follows that the people can themselves establish a parish for which they want a council.
Given that, it would seem sensible that in order to establish a parish, then one could follow the process for establishing a parish council, but stop short of the petitioning.


That doesn't follow. The ability to petition the holder of a power does not imply the ability to take that power upon yourself if your petition is rejected.

But the power one would be petitioning for is the establishment of a parish council: there is no intent to exert that power.
Surely in order to establish a parish council, there must first be a parish for the council to be a council of?
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Re: Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:04 pm

There is an area which it is suggested should be parished. Until a parish council is created, it is a proposed parish. A parish is an area governed by a parish council.
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Re: Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:15 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:There is an area which it is suggested should be parished. Until a parish council is created, it is a proposed parish. A parish is an area governed by a parish council.

If a parish is an area governed by a parish council, then how do you have a parish without a parish council? If you cannot have a parish without a council, then why does the Local Government Act 1972 make reference to parish meetings for parishes that do not have a council?

tph wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:.... but I can find nothing to cover how the public can establish a parish without that recommendation.

Perhaps there is no other way of establishing a parish. It sounds like political brown-nosing is the only way to do it!

Could be, but I am not persuaded. How were parishes established before that act came into force? It seems to me intended to supplement existing legislation rather than replace it.

Of course, once upon a time, when the church had a greater hand in these things, everywhere was divided into parishes: is there a fundamental difference between a civil parish and an ecclesiastical one? I can't spot anything in the '72 act that specifies that it doesn't apply to the latter, though it was clearly intended for the former.
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Re: Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Postby tph » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:34 pm

I think the purpose of the act was to allow for subdividing or redefining of existing parishes where for example a new development of 1000 homes within an existing parish would make the number of people living in one parish disproportionate to the number of people living in a neighbouring parish.
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Re: Establishing a parish without a parish council.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:59 pm

In a similar vein, how is a community defined or established, except insofar as it is an area governed by a community council?
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