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What kind of new hell is this?

Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby Boo » Thu May 01, 2014 9:35 pm

atticus wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
shootist wrote:Morally? By who's morals?

Any reasonable person.

Each one of us thinks that he himself/she herself is reasonableness personified.


In this instance, my role is to safeguard this individual's welfare. I hope to avoid serious case reviews.

What I think outside of this context is not for here.
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby shootist » Thu May 01, 2014 9:37 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:
shootist wrote:Legally, it depends whether you are defending a murder or applying for a firearms certificate.


Since we are doing neither of those, I struggle to understand your point. Were I feeling uncharitable, I'd find something unkind to say about your desire to turn this conversation round to guns and killing, but I'm noted for my sunny and generous outlook.

Legally, however, it is perfectly clear. The fact that someone acts like a dick from time to time is no reason to lock him up.

Morally? By who's morals?


By the morals of most right-thinking people. Or at the very least, by the morals of people who are not wholly unreasonable and outside the standards of civilised behaviour.


There is a very clear differential between what level of mental health might defend a murder and what will get your firearms certificate application refused. We are talking about a person who acts like an arse. Now he may act like this as a result of some deep seated psychological or psychiatric problem or it's just possible that he's a common or garden arse and also possesses a different set of morals which he believes are reasonable? Are you suggesting that anyone who's morals are different from yours is insane?

And why should people who are also quite likely also not wholly unreasonable, happily living inside the standards of civilised behaviour, have to endure this man's abuse? In what he does I might see someone acting like a dick. Another person might see a threatening, frightening, individual who scares or upsets them. And if that person cannot control their frightening behaviour then perhaps yes, they may well need locking up.
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby shootist » Thu May 01, 2014 9:50 pm

Boo wrote:In this instance, my role is to safeguard this individual's welfare. I hope to avoid serious case reviews.

What I think outside of this context is not for here.


I have certainly encountered people who' welfare was best served by long term secure care. Some were terribly sad cases who needed secure accommodation for their own welfare. Once case still haunts me today. A young girl, very intelligent, who had what might be called a complete nervous breakdown. She was put into care and between pregnancies she spent time in various hostels where she was beaten, robbed of her pocket money, and raped, on a regular basis by the other residents. After about 7 or 8 years she dropped off the radar altogether. Her biggest problem was than when confined to the large (semi) secure residential homes, now done away with, she acted 'normal' in just about every way. My first encounter with her was when someone reported her approaching men at random and asking them if they wanted to make a baby with her. Aged about 18, and would have been pretty. Fair broke my bloody heart, seeing her covered in bruises and pregnant again.
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby Boo » Thu May 01, 2014 9:54 pm

shootist wrote:
And why should people who are also quite likely also not wholly unreasonable, happily living inside the standards of civilised behaviour, have to endure this man's abuse?


What abuse? What do you know that I don't?

Because he' can be difficult to engage with and is not particularly compliant, should not imply he's abusive.
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby Hairyloon » Thu May 01, 2014 9:58 pm

Boo wrote:
shootist wrote:And why should people who are also quite likely also not wholly unreasonable, happily living inside the standards of civilised behaviour, have to endure this man's abuse?


What abuse? What do you know that I don't?

Didn't you know? Shootist used to be a copper, so he knows everything about everything... ;)
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby shootist » Fri May 02, 2014 1:10 am

Boo wrote:
shootist wrote:
And why should people who are also quite likely also not wholly unreasonable, happily living inside the standards of civilised behaviour, have to endure this man's abuse?


What abuse? What do you know that I don't?

Because he' can be difficult to engage with and is not particularly compliant, should not imply he's abusive.


Then perhaps you could have made that clearer. Your initial description fits the PC classic description of a right royal PITA who will abuse staff to some degree, and generally be more than a nuisance. If not, and he just asks them questions that they should know the answer to but can't be bothered with him, then they need sorting out. But in my experience, the measures you describe being taken are generally put in place to deal with the deliberately annoying types who's idea of a conversation is to cause offence at every opportunity if his whims are not pandered to.
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby Hairyloon » Fri May 02, 2014 9:14 am

shootist wrote:
Boo wrote:Because he' can be difficult to engage with and is not particularly compliant, should not imply he's abusive.


Then perhaps you could have made that clearer.

It is not really the central issue.
She made it clear that he ban is excessive, and the point is that there is no regulation of such a ban...

Hang on, is that not a punishment without trial?
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby Boo » Fri May 02, 2014 9:31 am

shootist wrote:
Boo wrote:
shootist wrote:
And why should people who are also quite likely also not wholly unreasonable, happily living inside the standards of civilised behaviour, have to endure this man's abuse?


What abuse? What do you know that I don't?

Because he' can be difficult to engage with and is not particularly compliant, should not imply he's abusive.


Then perhaps you could have made that clearer.


why?

I'm quite cautious about posting real life issues on public forums. I don't want certain things to come back to bite me.
Sometimes, less is more.

But it seemed you were happy to assume from the off he was the type to be abusive.
Perhaps, you've allowed pessimism to cloud your judgements on reality.


But in my experience, the measures you describe being taken are generally put in place to deal with the deliberately annoying types who's idea of a conversation is to cause offence at every opportunity if his whims are not pandered to.


The measures put in place by this particular security company are to protect the staff and public who use the building.

The reality is, some members of this security company are overstepping the mark. As I've already said, I've witnessed an incident.
The consequences are - individuals are banned from the building and losing benefit they're entitled to.

Unfortunately, some who wear a uniform and are poorly paid tend to lose all sense of proportion.
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby Hairyloon » Fri May 02, 2014 9:36 am

Boo wrote:Unfortunately, some who wear a uniform and are poorly paid tend to lose all sense of proportion.

I'll see your "some" and raise to "many".
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Re: What kind of new hell is this?

Postby Boo » Fri May 02, 2014 9:56 am

;)
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