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No Orgreave Inquiry

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No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby dls » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:22 am

(Edited - thanks HL)
Again I find myself confused on this.

This was a very improper standoff between two strands of British society each perfectly happy to use violence to get their way. The miners were content to use violent intimidation to stop strike breakers. Scargill saw this as is opportunity to assert a very muscular socialism ready and willing to take the battle as far as he could.

The conservative government wanted a scrap with the Unions in the hope of breaking once and for all the excessive power if trades unions in the UK.

South Yorkshire police, and the many other officers brought in for this purpose, were (on this occasion) piggies in the middle. Their behaviour on the day was terrible. It was worse than the miners because they came armed and were paid to keep the peace. They had instructions from on high (very) to make sure that they did a good job. They did so.

It was worse than the miners because many went on to be ready to perjure themselves. Many miners spent months in prison. It was eventually only a reassertion of honesty by police officers which led to the collapse of the trials and the end of the horrors of the day.

It seems clear that the police (many of them) misbehaved. It seems clear that the miners (many of them) misbehaved. It is not clear from just how high the instructions/expectations came down to finish the miners. Norman Tebbutt's recent pronouncement suggest there should indeed be shame in the Tory party.

A public inquiry cannot resolve the real issues. Was Scargill a genuine threat to British society, and Did the Tory government take the opportunity for a bit of literal head banging to rid us of trade union power?

It is not easy for people outside South Yorkshire to estimate or feel the real resentment and bitterness left still today. When you come across it, ii is stunning.

If the real question was about how we should police our society, then a public inquiry might be purposeful.

We have a 'truth and justice' campaign for the miners, but it has no readiness at all to face up to the real questions to be faced by the miners union. They still want a lynching, not 'truth and justice'
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby Millbrook2 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:27 pm

Indeed they do and Scargill eventually came out and finally admitted that the miners strike was a political move to unseat the government rather than an industrial dispute.

The miners were more let down by their leadership than the Torys.

A public enquiry into this matter has no value - the values and culture of the police force in question has already been laid bare.
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby dls » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:33 pm

To be clear, all that an enquiry would do, as usual, would be to blame the individual officers on the ground, with perhaps, at best, one or two sacrificial less senior police commanders. It would never get as high as asking what political decisions were made at cabinet or similar level.

Equally, a truth and justice campaign setting out from a background of miner's union flags suggests only that the desire is for a very one sided truth - and that can never be justice.
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby diy » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:10 pm

But this was 30 years ago and anyone in the wrong and senior is likely to be in their 80s. I'm not convinced that we don't have corruption in the police to deal with. There is still a culture of flashing the warrant card to get off a speeding ticket, getting their stories straight or even expecting police discount. However, in this case money well saved.
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:06 pm

Diane Abbot wrote:There are few things in politics that are truly shocking. But Home Secretary Amber Rudd’s decision to deny any Inquiry at all into the incidents at the Orgreave coking plant in 1984 and subsequent events definitely falls into that category. There was widespread disbelief and anger on the Opposition benches following the announcement. The obvious disappointment of the members of the Orgreave Truth and Justice Campaign (OTJC) was fully justified.

The decision to deny an Inquiry is purely political. The truth is the current and former Home Secretaries Amber Rudd and Theresa May led the campaigners up the garden path. Theresa May’s principal policy adviser Nick Timothy previously argued in favour of an Orgreave Inquiry. The campaigners report that their discussions with the Home Secretaries centred on the form an Inquiry might take. There was no suggestion there would not be an Inquiry.

Amber Rudd argues that, as no-one died and there were no convictions then Orgreave does not merit any Inquiry.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/diane-a ... 477938827&
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby shootist » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:24 pm

I think it's time we had a judicial enquiry into the land clearances in Scotland. I'm sure that there were many illegal acts carried out by landowners, one of which has denied me my Scottish heritage and all the wonderful benefits I would now have as a Jockinese citizen. I need justice, grovelling apologies from all landowners concerned and, of course, compensation. Who do I sue.

The campaigners might be better employed seeking out police lies and misinformation that is happening today. Everyone knows that the police acted in a most dubious fashion in respect of prosecutions. It's as good as decided. As for the violence, I wasn't at Orgreave, but I was at one particular pit that had a show of violence in the early days that was quite terrifying.
Last edited by shootist on Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:25 pm

shootist wrote:I think it's time we had a judicial enquiry into the land clearances in Scotland. I'm sure that there were many illegal acts carried out by landowners, one of which has denied me my Scottish heritage and all the wonderful benefits I would now have as a Jockinese citizen. I need justice, grovelling apologies from all landowners concerned and, of course, compensation. Who do I sue.

I think you may be fall foul of the limitation Act on that one...
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby shootist » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
shootist wrote:I think it's time we had a judicial enquiry into the land clearances in Scotland. I'm sure that there were many illegal acts carried out by landowners, one of which has denied me my Scottish heritage and all the wonderful benefits I would now have as a Jockinese citizen. I need justice, grovelling apologies from all landowners concerned and, of course, compensation. Who do I sue.

I think you may be fall foul of the limitation Act on that one...


Ah yes! Well, we clearly need an enquiry into that corrupt piece of legislation to stop such injustices and corruption being hidden from the public. History should be no bar to justice. Hadrian's Wall is a monument to racism against the Scots by the Romans. The list goes on.
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby atticus » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:33 pm

FCOL.
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Re: No Orgreave Inquiry

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:45 pm

The House of Lancaster has claimed that South Yorkshire Police lay squarely to blame for all atrocities that took place during the War of the Roses 600 years ago.

Indeed it is suggested that the force’s involvement with any historical event has been downright scandalous, including the case of the great whippet robbery in 1983.

http://newsthump.com/2016/11/01/south-y ... the-roses/
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